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StarLite Moon
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PostSubject: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:00 am

Greetings fellow players

Not sure if this topic has been talked about before. But I was curious about what people think

I've played a few of the HOGs and myself, I find that regular adventure games are more personal. How do I explain this. I find that the HOG games even though they put a story to them, you have a bunch of objects on screen that you have to find or put back. Don't get me wrong I still love HOG games. I'm just finding a difference.

Regular adventure games seems to pull you into the adventure. You have your character be it 1st person or 3rd and you interact with that character.

Myself I feel more a part of the game with adventure than with HOG. Does anyone else feel this way.

Also if you had a choice which do you prefer flower
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GreyFuss
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:45 am

With me there is no "Choice" Adventure games or nothing. Can't stand the HOG's or Casual Games for that matter.
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AlienBZ
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:54 am

GreyFuss wrote:
With me there is no "Choice" Adventure games or nothing. Can't stand the HOG's or Casual Games for that matter.

Same with me.
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hatshepsut
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:12 am

My choice is adventure games, adventure games and more adventure games. Smile

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HandsFree
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:30 am

Ditto.
I don't understand why casual games are considered almost-adventure games, and are covered by AG-sites.
For me they are as close to AG's as shooters or any other completely unadventurous genre.
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StarLite Moon
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:26 pm

Good replies. So if given a choice would you want your adventure game mixed. For instance, adventure but a couple of scenes HOG type. This is sort of what I did with The Lost Talisman Of Raja. It's isn't full HOG but a mix, it's mostly adventure.

Ok then, how about some of the HOG puzzles. Myself I love the ripped up note, but HOG games aren't the first to come out with those. I remember the old game Ripper, had notes like that and a cup and saucer you had to put together.

Thank you everyone for your input, it helps a lot to know what people like and want sunny
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GreyFuss
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:56 pm

NO! NO! NO!...a thousand times NO!! See GF's post above Laughing
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hatshepsut
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:09 pm

I don't want any HOG.s in my adventure games.

I do like a good clue torn up letter or picture puzzle. I like a good slider puzzle. The most important part any puzzle in a game to me is:

1. Is it relevant to the story

2. Does it move the story along

3. Very important: Hard enough to make it interesting and thought provoking but not so hard that it is almost unsolvable.

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HandsFree
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:25 pm

No HOG's for me. But torn notes, sliders and the like are something else.
The Tex Murphy games were full of them and I loved those.

I have never read a review or a forum comment where pixelhunting was mentioned as a positive game characteristic. So why deliberately include that (let alone create a complete genre with it)?
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hatshepsut
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:34 pm

Ditto what HandsFree said, especially about the pixel hunting.

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mindysue
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:37 pm

Hi StarLite Moon,
I want to put in a good word for HOGs, which nowadays have evolved to IHOGs, which have quite a bit of interactive (key word) adventure in the game along with the lists of hidden objects scenes. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool adventure gamer having started with early text adventures and continued every step of the way along with Sierra Online, LucasArts, and many others who were busily making games. I would be happy if there were more adventure games out there to play that were true adventures, not Myst clones, also known as a sub-genre. I play IHOGs to pass the time while I wait for my-kind-of-adventure to come along and I am noticing a trend in these games: They are moving along toward having more and more adventure elements in their gameplay. At least that is true of the Interactive Hidden Object Game (IHOG) as I don't often play the other type of casual games. As for those who so strongly object to HOGs, I notice they seem to have one thing in common, like they never play these games and have no true knowledge of what they are like, only their own prejudice against them. Too bad. On the other hand, I can see why Myst fans would be turned off any game that sounded halfway easy/casual to play. They want challenges because they like banging their heads against a wall, or am I being too harsh here? Sorry about that, Myst fans.
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Jen
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:52 pm

Some of those hidden object games definitely cross the line into adventure, or adventure lite at the very least. They have a story and puzzles that advance the story. The hidden object scenes are an obnoxious form of filler in most of them; otherwise they'd all be less than an hour long. But they are cheap enough to match their length, and even with the hidden object scenes they can be played in one sitting.

Some of the casual games are adventure lite without the hidden object scenes, like the Drawn games, the Legend of Crystal Valley, Puzzle Bots, and a handful of others.
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GreyFuss
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:45 pm

mindysue wrote:
Hi StarLite Moon,
I want to put in a good word for HOGs, which nowadays have evolved to IHOGs, which have quite a bit of interactive (key word) adventure in the game along with the lists of hidden objects scenes. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool adventure gamer having started with early text adventures and continued every step of the way along with Sierra Online, LucasArts, and many others who were busily making games. I would be happy if there were more adventure games out there to play that were true adventures, not Myst clones, also known as a sub-genre. I play IHOGs to pass the time while I wait for my-kind-of-adventure to come along and I am noticing a trend in these games: They are moving along toward having more and more adventure elements in their gameplay. At least that is true of the Interactive Hidden Object Game (IHOG) as I don't often play the other type of casual games. As for those who so strongly object to HOGs, I notice they seem to have one thing in common, like they never play these games and have no true knowledge of what they are like, only their own prejudice against them. Too bad. On the other hand, I can see why Myst fans would be turned off any game that sounded halfway easy/casual to play. They want challenges because they like banging their heads against a wall, or am I being too harsh here? Sorry about that, Myst fans.

Whoa there....no need for name calling. Lets back the IHOG truck up and see that the question at hand was if we chose to have HOG's in our adventure games or not. I am speaking for myself when I say that the originator wasn't looking for a debate but rather a question of preference.

As for the name calling...or categorizing certain posters I can say that I have tried several HOG's, IHOG's and Adventure Lites and none of them are not my cup of tea. This does not mean that they aren't good for somebody else. Just that I want no part of them in adventure games. Once they are in them they might as well be called Casuals or Adventure Lites.

Now as far as the Head Bangers name calling...was Einstein a Head Banger, Sir Isaac Newton a Head Banger? No, they were thinkers
and what is so wrong about games that make you think? These Myst clones you speak of is not a sub genre but is a big part of what adventure games are today whether it be first person or third. Besides I can only think of a few games that I would consider clones of Myst and that would be the 2 Schizm games and Realms of Illusion.

So why can't we just leave Casuals as Casual and Adventures as Adventures and everyone just play what they like? You wanna talk sub genre how about action adventure?

So back on Topic...

NO! NO! NO!...A thousand Times NO! lol!
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StarLite Moon
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:58 pm

Ok, let's everyone mellow out. I hadn't intended for this message to be a rock'em sock'em thread. I don't like being shouted at in caps no more than someone else not liking being called a head banger, which wasn't what was said. I've felt like banging my head against the wall trying to figure out levers and machines of Myst. There were Myst games I didn't even bother finishing because of the stupid mechanics.

All I wanted was to get people's input not make anyone mad. I've got enough to deal with in my life with this damn depression I don't want people fighting over my thread. I wrote a game that now has to be re-written because I thought the HOG games were the big thing now. All I wanted was to find out people's ideas, not be yelled and screamed at and called names, which I don't see where there is name calling, not that it matters. Believe me I've been called worse than a head banger.

I had another question but forget it, I'll just rewrite the story if I even do anymore games after Hawk Manor. Sorry folks, but don't get mad at each other over this stupid thread I started. If the fighting persists then I'll ask someone to remove the post. Sorry
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GreyFuss
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:10 am

StarLite

That was all tongue in cheek...Mindysue and I are friends and we know where each one is coming from. So never fear all is well. cheers
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HandsFree
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:35 am

No worries StarLite Moon. Lot's of people like Hog's, but you'll find less than average here because the Grue has scared all but the most courageous of them away. Smile

If you have written a game that includes hidden objects, I see no need to change that.
I found Roanoke very enjoyable, so I'm sure you will find a way to get that right as well.

Torn notes and that type of puzzles are indigenous to adventure games though, so when we (OK I) comment on HOG's it's about hidden objects in a static screen. I expect at least a torn note or a slider in every AG (but no mazes please).
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hatshepsut
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:45 am

Hi StarLite

There is no need for you to be sorry. As a developer you asked peoples preferences in order to make a game a pleasing experience for gamers. As a gamer I fully appreciate a developer asking for input. It's unfortunate that a developer can't please every gamer with every game but since every one's taste is different that is the way it goes.

I know all those who posted well enough to reassure you that they were neither mad at you or each other. I have also played some HOG's and Adventure Lite's but I have nothing against them or the people who play them. They just aren't my game. My best friend, Mom and little boy play them and love them. If anyone called you names or yelled at you I would like to personally apologize to you to.

Please don't feel like you have to redo a game to keep people happy. There are plenty of people here that do play and enjoy HOG's. And they will be happy that you have thought of them.

Please don't ever feel like you can't ask a question here. Ask the other questions that you have. I'm happy to answer them in order to help you with the game and so are the other members here. We are very proud to have our own independent developer here who cares about us and our opinions.

And please please please don't stop making your games. You are very talented and I look forward to watching you grow as a developer.

hatshepsut

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hatshepsut
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:46 am

Oh HandsFree no mazes ?..........but I love mazes............not lol!

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StarLite Moon
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:29 am

No one called me names, I just don't like caps because I was told that caps are a form of yelling and I picture the person behind the screen shaking their fist at me. I don't mean to get people mad, I don't like it when people are mad at me. I like to have a reputation as being a friendly person not an ogre. My husband always says to me, "what do you care what people think." Well I do care, I'm not out to make enemies anywhere, what is the point of that.

I didn't know GF and mindysue were friends and having a lark, I was worried they were going to start a Donny Brook and I'd feel like it would have been my fault. I guess it's a good thing I'm not taking the nerve pills my doctor wants me to, they make me real angry.

Ok then on to business, no mazes, how about 1/2 a maze. In Hawk Manor you have to go to a spring so I wanted to have a forest path that you travel, nothing huge where if you go a mile you get stuck you have to go all the way back, the forest might be a few screens, but you won't get struck. Then there's the grotto. I want to make a nice pleasant scenery

In The Lost Talisman I could take out the part of the game where when you enter the room you have the list of things you have to find. I can always put the object you need somewhere else. I'll look it over and see what I can do with it. I'm always changing everything, I've rewritten Hawk Manor about 15 times and I'll probably rewrite it again before I'm finished with it. Well I don't want to end up losing this message so I'll cut it off.

Thank you again for your input, it has been very helpful. I like getting people's opinion it's the only way to learn and put out a good game. Take care everyone, and no fighting
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hatshepsut
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:53 am

Hi StarLite

I can assure you that GreyFuss and mindysue have been friends for a long time and they enjoy baiting each other. They most definitely are not mad at each other. I know that people generally accept caps as yelling but in this case I can assure you that GreyFuss was not and is not mad at you. It was emphasis only. My best friend does the same thing.

now down to business. The mazes. Mazes aren't my favorite and I really don't mind doing them. I do enjoy figuring them out. Either way you do sounds good to me but I think I might lean a little more towards going back and starting over. Generally speaking I don't like a maze that is overly complicated. The grotto I like grottos. Smile

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mindysue
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:04 pm

Now then, I'm totally overwhelmed and sorry and completely confused over what my post to simply defend HOGs, and especially IHOGs, turned into, as I was only trying to stick up for them since I had the feeling they were being treated unfairly by those who didn't care for them. I wasn't name-calling as far as I knew and I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone. I think maybe my foot accidentally got caught in my mouth with the wording I used, like I do get carried away. I blame it on my DNA and the Autistic Spectrum gene that is part of Asperger's Syndrome! Never heard of it? That's when people aren't good at the social graces and have a hard time with small talk and just being friendly even when wanting to be part of the social scene. So, I have my own problems with depression and trying to express myself. I don't have a talent to do so by way of making games, or even by posting, seemslike. And yes, I agree GreyFuss and I are friends, since I believe him when he says so!
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:23 pm

The only way HOGs interest me is the phenomenon of their popularity and endless demand. Not that there's anything wrong with them - I just don't understand people don't get bored with the same type of object-hunting puzzles in such great amounts.

In general, I'm allergic to games that play exactly the same as some I already played in the past. Be it a new HOG or a new Tetris I'm simply not in the slightest interested in playing it. But I understand many people like replaying similar challenges as a diversion.


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hatshepsut
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:03 am

mindysue don't worry. You were asked about your opinion and you gave your opinion. We know you enjoy HOGs and Ihogs. There is nothing wrong with you defending them. There are more members here than you who also play and enjoy them. They just haven't been around or posted yet. Your opinion is just as valuable as the other members opinion. We all get carried away in our defense of what we believe in from time to time. No more worry ok

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lakerz
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:04 am

I play plenty of straight adventure games as well as plenty of HOGs, so any game that comes along that combines HOG screens with adventure gameplay, puzzles, and inventory is all fine by me!
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PostSubject: Re: HOG vs Adventure   Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:25 am

Good nite all, I think I'm the one at fault here. First I thought that GF was yelling me because I was also told that caps is yelling at you. So I thought he was getting mad at me for asking about HOG games. But then it looked like GF and mindysue were going to start fighting. I didn't know they were friends. So once again, not understanding the situation I reacted or over reacted. So that's also my fault. Sorry, it wasn't my intention to turn this message into a battle field. I guess I should ask before reacting, but I don't want to sound like a baby and say, "are you mad at me". Ok, now that that's out of the way.

This was my intention for the Lost Talisman. You have a 3rd person character like in Roanoke, the game play is like Roanoke, you wander around looking for things etc. I was considering in a couple of rooms doing a list of objects you have to look for. Not a lot only maybe a couple of rooms. I just don't want people to start playing RaJa get to the hidden list room and then not finish the game because they can't stand HOG games. If it comes to the point where someone won't continue playing then I'd sooner rewrite that part of the game. It isn't much work, just figure out what to do with the item that you get after you find everything. Plus I wasn't going to have a very long list.

I've played some of these HOG games myself and I do enjoy some of the puzzles like the ripped up notes, jigsaw puzzles, match two cards, word search, putting items back and a few others I can't remember. I played one HOG game once that all you did every room was look for everything on the list, now that I hate.

I'm up in the air between which game to make after Hawk Manor, if my friend isn't going to make Knight Of The Pentacle then I'll take it over or else The Lost Talisman of RaJa. They're both really funny games. But right now I have to get Hawk Manor finished.

Right now I'm off to bed. I feel awful that this message got out of hand the way it did and for my part in that I apologize. Please feel free to give your opinions, I promise I won't bite. I'm finding the input very helpful. Take care for now Sleep
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