R M S Titanic

Thanks Greyfuss, you did it again ! In all seriousness , due to Greyfuss & his Titanic "discovery" , it seems to have developed some interest in RMS Titanic . I've held a seemingly life long interest in Titanic . So, after some very interesting posts in that thread, I have decided to start a thread of my own, specifically to talk about Titanic . Let the discussion begin !!!

Good subject Faust, my hubby has been doing his family tree lately with his cousin and it turns out that one of my hubby's ancestors was on the Titanic when it sank. She was one of the survivors. I was born in Newfoundland, and from what I remember I think the Titanic went down just off the coast of Grand Banks, Nfld. I'm really surprised that they didn't teach us anything in school about the Titanic in history, you would think it would be worth teaching there.

To have a personal connection to Titanic... very nice ! I've found a web site that illustrates Titanic's location : http://www.webtitanic.net/thewreck.html


From the map , Titanic lies 450 miles from Halifax, Nova Scotia , about the same distance from Cape Race Newfoundland . Why this was never taught in school , I have no idea ! That would've been a very interesting history class !!

Interesting website Faust. The illustration for how deep the Titanic sits really puts it into perspective.

I have seen the dolls head (mentioned on the website) on several Titanic specials and always wondered about it.

I don't know why they didn't teach anything about Titanic in school either. There were many things that became law after the sinking that would have been interesting lessons.

It's very interesting that you had a relative on the Titanic StarLight.

hatshepsut

I remember watching a special, where Robert Ballard was talking about his search for Titanic . He was worried that Titanic was covered by an earthquake in 1915, & nobody would ever find Titanic . If someone would like to see an interesting special , watch Ghosts Of The Abyss . It was released in 2001 , & was made by James Cameron . Some very interesting info & footage of Titanic as she appears today, at least in 2001 . Hey Hats , have you ever attended any of the Titanic artifact exhibits ?

No I haven't been able to attend any of the exhibits. But I have seen a special on the exhibits it was very interesting. I have seen the Ghost of the Abyss it was very interesting.

The answer you made in the other post about the lifeboats was interesting. I always thought that not enough lifeboats and the belief that Titanic couldn't sink were the great tragedies.

hatshepsut

The last exhibit I attended was a couple years ago in St Louis . There's a permanent exhibit in Branson Mo, about 4 hours away from me . Another intetesting special , is the Imax film Titanica .

The lifeboats on Titanic were designed to carry 65 people . Unfortunately , some of those boats left with less than 20 people in them .The belief of Titanic's being unsinkable, was due to an article in the British magazine, The Ship Builder. In that magazine, the article touted Titanic as being "virtually unsinkable" . White Star Line, & Harland & Wolff, Titanic's builders , let the article stand, & the more people read it & talked about it, the belief became accepted as fact .

They also say that she also wasn't christened. Isn't that some kind of bad luck?

One of the guys I used to work with seen the Imax version of that movie and he said it was amazing. It would probably do me in. The first time I seen an Imax movie I got sick and had to put my head down and close my eyes till it passed. I wish I could have seen the Imax version.

StarLite Moon wrote:

They also say that she also wasn't christened. Isn't that some kind of bad luck?

One of the guys I used to work with seen the Imax version of that movie and he said it was amazing. It would probably do me in. The first time I seen an Imax movie I got sick and had to put my head down and close my eyes till it passed. I wish I could have seen the Imax version.

Bad luck ? Maybe, depends on if you believe in that sort of thing . I have Titanica (Imax movie) on vhs . Granted , it's not Imax , but it was intetesting just the same !!

I don't really know why I haven't gone to the exhibit at Branson. I haven't seen the Titanica either. Maybe I can find a copy of it somewhere.

I think the real bad luck was that all the iceberg warnings weren't delivered to the bridge and in Captain Smith's experience icebergs hadn't traveled that far at that time of year so apparently didn't believe there was any great danger.

On one of the specials I saw they estimated that the iceberg that the Titanic hit had broken off and started traveling south the same year that they started building the Titanic.

hatshepsut

This may interest you Hatshepsut : http://www.amazon.com/Titanica-Large-Format-Leonard-Nimoy/dp/1558908676/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1276206360&sr=8-1


I think that Captain Smith did what he knew to do, & at the same time , was under pressure to push Titanic . If I remember it correct , & depending on what you read, Captaian Smith was being pushed to keep Titanic's speed by Bruce Ismay . True , ignoring ice warnings did not help either ! At 9:40 that night, in ice warning from the Mesaba , warning of ice, was never delivered to the bridge . THere are so many other "what if's" ! You may be right about that iceberg !

I don't know if you've seen this or not Faust, but there are a lot of videos on YouTube about the Titanic. I'm going to keep an eye out for that movie, we might be able to get it at our library

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hq_y_pQi_w

My sister loves all the specials about the Titanic and can talk about it for hours. We threatened to get her the t-shirt that says, "The ship sank. Get over it." I really do find it fascinating myself. It was that series of cumulative mistakes I find so tragic.

There was one woman, a nurse named Violet Jessup, who survived the sinking of both the Titanic and her sister ship, the Brittanic, which was torpedoed in the Mediterranean during WWI. The only White Star ship of that class to survive was the Olympic.

A very interesting clip StarLite !! Here's one you may have not seen yet : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM7XglHDWlU&feature=related


I'm sort of like your sister Lady K ! I could talk about the Titanic for hours myself ! The mistakes made, along with the greed & arrogance, makes the loss of Titanic very tragic indeed ! Violet Jessup served on the Olympic as well . The Olympic was in service until 1934, when it was retired, then sold for scrap metal . A part of the Olympic's fittings, mainly the paneling of the first class lounge, can be found at the White Swan Hotel in England . Here is a short video of what it looks like : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM7XglHDWlU&feature=related

Thanks for the link Faust.

Yes I think that with his experience and with the knowledge he had that Captain Smith did what he what he knew best to do. I have also read that Captain Smith was pressured to get the Titanic to New York in record time. I don't know if there was really anything Captain Smith could have done differently even if he had gotten all the warnings.

I really don't remember all the particulars about that iceberg but it had something to do with ice flows and how long it takes them to travel. It was interesting anyway.

Thanks StarLite I keep forgetting that they have nearly everything on youtube.

Lady Kestrel I remember Violet Jessup from a special that I watched about the Britannic.

Faust have you ever read the transcripts from the inquest ? There were two of them I think one in England and one in New York.

hatshepsut

These have been contributed by my sis. (I'm not responsible. )

What kind of coffee did they serve on the Titanic?

Spoiler:

What kind of salad did they serve on the Titanic?

Spoiler:

Sanka coffee , Iceberg lettuce


I found that on about a dozen joke sites on the net . Joke , meaning "ha ha" joke . Cute !

Thanks for the link Faust it was very enjoyable. You know I don't know what it is about watching old footage on the Titanic but it seems to have an air about it. I can't explain it, it's almost like a calming. I asked my hubby this, why does watching old films and pictures of the Titanic make you feel different than if you hear about a ship sinking today.

I mean we hear about them on the news but it doesn't hit us like the Titanic. Sure you feel bad for the people today who lose their lives on sinking ships but the Titanic just has something about it. Could someone explain to me what it is.

I've been doing some searches on icebergs in the North Atlantic, telegraph warnings of icebergs to the Titanic and Captain Smiths experience with icebergs. From what I discovered icebergs are a major source of danger in the North Atlantic from Feb to August. So I'm going to have to retract my earlier statement about icebergs in the Atlantic in April.

I wasn't able to discover much of anything about Captain Smiths experience with icebergs. But one would assume being an experienced Captain he would know the dangers of icebergs.

The most interesting thing I discovered that over the course of that Sun. there were at least 7 telegraphs received concerning icebergs. One of the last was to tell the Titanic she was heading into a field of icebergs and gave the coordinates. Of course the last one from The Californian was trying to tell them they had stopped 20 miles away surrounded by icebergs. When the Titanic started sending out her distress call she gave the wrong coordinates. I started thinking about that and that they were so apparently unconcerned about the iceberg warning. I guess we'll never know why they weren't concerned with the icebergs. But I did wonder what if their apparent lack of concern was caused by a tragic miscalculation of their position.

hatshepsut

StarLite , I have no idea why Titanic holds such an interest, even after all this time . Wish I could answer that ! Maybe, it has to do with a beautiful ship, supposedly unsinkable, on her maiden voyage . She collides with an iceberg and sinks . All of the emotion , drama, that is played out during and after the sinking . Unfortunately , 1523 people lost their lives that night due to human error, arrogance . There have been several ship wrecks since, some with more loss of life , but Titanic is special, & will probably always be that way . Whenever I see pictures, footage of Titanic , I get quiet, it makes me think .

I've seen a couple specials where Captain smith stated that he had no real concern about icebergs, he had no reason to worry , because "modern ship building has gone beyond that" . I think that was one of the reasons , coupled with pressure from Bruce Ismay , why the warnings were ignored . The warning from Mesaba at 9:40 that night was never delivered to the bridge . When the Californian radioed Titanic, Jack Phillips (the wireless operator on duty that night) got nasty , told the Californian "shut up, I'm busy" . As to the mis-reported position, maybe they were just mistaken, with everything being so chaotic at the time . I don't think, in the end , it mattered too much . The Olympic & Mount Temple were unable to help, they were too far away . The Carpathia did help, but was not able to reach the site until the following morning . The Californian was very close, about 10 or so miles , they did nothing. Captain Lord passed the buck , claiming another ship was in the area . Regardless of the reason , they should've helped . The last survivor of Titanic, Milvina Dean , passed away last year .

Actually hatshepsut,

Quote :

So I'm going to have to retract my earlier statement about icebergs in the Atlantic in April

Back in 1974, I returned home to Nfld. in July and they had to blast 4 icebergs out of the entrance to the harbor because they were blocking ships from coming to port. It was cold enough to wear a jacket. I remember going swimming with my friends and we were at a place where the iceberg was close enough to shore you could swim out to it and sit on it. Although you sit for long. I wouldn't go swimming because I couldn't swim, but I went in the water and jumped out because it was ice cold. It was like a big huge beautiful white mountain. You could see the tip of it when you drove down the highway and then when you turned the bend there it was as big as life. It was like it came out of nowhere. I wish we could have gotten a picture of it

They're a beautiful sight though. This one you could see the cracks in it and in between the cracks were aqua colored. And when they melt they form all kinds of nice shapes. I seen one was shaped that looked like the arch of a church. Some have looked like angels.

But getting back to Captain Smith, he was under a lot of pressure from White Star to make that trip at all cost. Remember the man who dressed up in women's clothes and got on one of the lifeboats? Well he was the guy who worked for White Star and gave the order to keep going. I think. I'm not up on Titanic history myself even though next to anything happening in Egypt is just as fascinating.

Thank you for that piece of info Faust. The Titanic sure does make you feel still inside. When I see under water pics of it now I get this feeling of sadness for such a unnecessary loss of life. But there is something about the ship itself. Such a majestic Goliath that looks life like sitting there like it's at peace. I don't know if this makes sense, but it looks like it feels at home at the bottom of the sea. I don't know, it seems like such a waste all around

Captain Smith also stated that he had never had an accident. Like you said Faust I believe arrogance contributed quite a bit to the sinking. It was very unfortunate that Titanic's wireless operator was nasty with the Californian. The Californian was close enough to have helped. I've always wondered just why the look outs on the Californian thought that the distress flares that Titanic thought they were fireworks and why the captain didn't think it was important or why he didn't have his wireless operator try to contact the Titanic again.

hatshepsut

Actually , Captain Smith did have an accident . While captain of the Olympic, he collided with another ship , the Hawke . The accident was bad enough to keep the Olympic out of service for about 6 weeks , or 6 months , I don't really remember which . Why the crew & captain of the Californian were such bumbling idiots, I have no idea . Maybe the color of the rockets were supposed to be a different color to indicate distress , but that's a presumption on my part . As I understand it , the Californian wireless operator was coming off a long shift, and went to bed . Captain Lord , when told what was happening, basically ignored what he was told , & went to sleep . Here's a bit of news . Bruce Ismay stopped pay on any member of Titanic's crew that survived the sinking .

Faust that is incredible that Captain Smith could boast of having an accident free career after having an accident with the Olympic. I remember now how old Captain Smith was but I wonder if he was getting forgetful. It is also my understanding that the wireless operator was coming off a long shift and was the only operator on board. I believe he stated he stayed on for another 20 minutes after contacting the Titanic and then shut down. I don't know about the color of the rockets either. Or if there was any particular way to shoot them. It is my understanding also that Captain Lord ignored what he was told and only told the lookouts to keep watching. I I didn't know that Ismay stopped pay on surviving crew members. That really seems a little callous.

hatshepsut

From everything I've read & researched , Bruce Ismay was a very callous man . I read an interview once, where one of his relatives was asked about Ismay's role on the Titanic , & her sinking . Basically , the relative said : Every story needs a bad guy .

Here's another bit of info . While the American inquest in to Titanic's loos was being prepared , radio operator's intercepted a message , asking that transport be made immediately available, for surviving Titanic personnel to return home . The message was signed by a person called "Yamsi" . It didn't take a scientist to figure out, that Yamsi is Ismay spelled backwards . Ismay , especially, along with some of the surviving crew , wanted to avoid the questions,accusations that the inquest brought .

As for Captain Lord, he spent his remaining days trying to explain away his actions . The Carpathia was sank in WWI . The wreck was found in recent years , between 2001 to 2005 , I think .

Both American & British inquiries can be downloaded here : http://www.titanicinquiry.org/


I just downloaded them myself